MacOSX-TeX Digest #25 - 06/01/01

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MacOSX-TeX Digest #25 - 06/01/01

MacOSX-TeX mailing list
MacOSX-TeX Digest #25 - Friday, June 1, 2001

  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How to install *.cls files for TeXShop?
          by "Michael Murray" <[hidden email]>
  CMacTeX 4.0
          by "Tom Kiffe" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
          by "William Adams" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
          by "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
  Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Zachary Davis" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Warren Nagourney" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Barry Smith" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Michael Murray" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "karim daho" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
          by "Graham A. Niblo" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
          by "Martin Bauer" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Timothy Larkin" <[hidden email]>
  TeXShop *.bib-file bug?
          by "Martin Bauer" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Bruno Voisin" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How to install *.cls files for TeXShop?
          by "laurens" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Richard Koch" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "karim" <[hidden email]>
  [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Jon Guyer" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
          by "Jon Guyer" <[hidden email]>
  [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Arthur Ogus" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "karim daho" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
          by "Martin Stokhof" <[hidden email]>
  Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
          by "Paolo Ghirardato" <[hidden email]>
  [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an  editorial
          by "Paolo Ghirardato" <[hidden email]>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How to install *.cls files for TeXShop?
From: "Michael Murray" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:54:23 +0930

>I downloaded an AIAA (unofficial) LaTeX package
><http://abftp.larc.nasa.gov/~kleb/aiaa/>.  I did a little detective
>work and found out that I could set a variable, TEXINPUTS, to use
>it's *.cls file.  Now, I did that and pdfLaTeX finds the file when
>run from the command line.  When TeXShop runs pdfLaTeX, it doesn't
>find it.  What to do?
>
>I set the variable in my .cshrc.  Clearly, my .cshrc file isn't
>being run for TeXShop.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
>"unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
>For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
>"help" (no quotes) in the body.
>This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
>messages posted by third parties.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi

Either

(i) have a look on the TeXShop web page at the very bottom.  There is
a discussion  about how to setup a local texmf tree for your `own'
inputs
files.  or

(ii) navigate into the system texmf tree and put the .cls
in whatever looks like the right place.  You'll need to sudo to root
to be able to do this. Then run `texhash' as root.  I think it should
work then.

If that doesn't work you have gone beyond my knowledge of UNIX (not hard
to do :-) )


MIchael

--
_________________________________________________________
Assoc/Prof Michael Murray                                                  
Department of Pure Mathematics       Fax: 61+ 8 8303
3696                                      
University of Adelaide             Phone: 61+ 8 8303 4174      
Australia  5005      Email: [hidden email]            
Home Page: http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/pure/mmurray
PGP public key:
http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/pure/mmurray/pgp.txt
_________________________________________________________


   



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: CMacTeX 4.0
From: "Tom Kiffe" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:52:09 -0500

Version 4.0 of CMacTeX for Mac OS X and OS 9 can be downloaded from the
CMacTeX Home Page at http://www.kiffe.com/cmactex.html. This release
supersedes the previous OS X beta release included with CMacTeX 3.7.

The new features of Version 4.0 include the following:

1) The full installation of CMacTeX gives you a basic TeX installation
that works in both OS 9 and OS X. The installation can be done in either
OS 9 or OS X, the only difference being the location of your Preferences
folder. The installation process has been greatly simplified.

2) If you already have teTeX installed on OS X you can download just one
file which contains all of the Carbon binaries and the support files
specific to CMacTeX. The teTeX texmf tree can be used with CMacTeX.
Version 4.0 fully supports alias folders so you can put CMacTeX on any
partition. (With the previous beta release CMacTeX had to be installed
on the root partition.)

3) CMacTeX integrates very well with the Carbon version of BBEdit and even
works with Alpha running in the Classic environment. (I hope a Carbon version
of Alpha appears soon.) Since CMacTeX can be run from the Terminal it should
be possible to configure emacs to call the CMacTeX programs.

4) You can use Acrobat, Acrobat Reader and the Preview application included
with OS X for viewing PDF files.

5) Currently CMacTeX contains the only native dvi previewer for OS X which
does not require the installation of the X Window System. If a dvi file
has been prepared with the srcltx package, a click in a displayed page
will take you back to the editor and the editor will highlight the first
line of the selected paragraph. This feature currently works only with
BBEdit and Alpha because only these editors have the needed Apple Event
support.

6) Macintosh Postscript fonts can be used with CMacTeX's dvips and pdftex.
You do not have to convert your Lucida or MathTime Postscript fonts into
pfb format.

CMacTeX is a GUI-based TeX system for OS 9 which has been converted to Carbon
in order to run natively on OS X. The OS X version of CMacTeX is intended for those users coming to OS X from OS 9 with limited Unix experience.

Most of the programs included with CMacTeX are based on the latest
source code and offer some features not available with the standard Unix
programs. Dvips and pdftex can read Macintosh Postscript fonts. Pdftex allows
you to turn partial font embedding on and off with a single mouse click and
allows you to embed the 14 basic Postscript fonts. Most programs can read
text files containing either Macintosh or Unix end-of-line characters. You
don't need the X Window System just to view dvi and Postscript files.

Tom Kiffe


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
From: "William Adams" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:57:11 -0400

andy said:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 08:33 , Troy Goodson wrote:
>
> > I'd be hard pressed to name a single NeXT app that's been ported to OS X.
>
> OmniWeb
> Mail
> TextEdit
> ProjectBuilderWO
> all WO-development apps

The WO-Development thing is kind of a funky way to describe it.... weird
history and all.

Here're some others:

Create - www.stone.com
TIFFany - www.caffeinsoft.com, I think it is
pStill - www.stone.com
FreeHand - (this is kind of an odd one, by way of FreeHand v4 having
been based on Altsys Virtuoso 2.0, a NeXT app---the Carbonized FreeHand
loses out on Services and nifty Display PostScript type stuff though :(

More should be listed on Softrak at www.stepwise.com

William


--
William Adams, publishing specialist
ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
http://www.atlis.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
From: "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:18:34 -0400

On 5/31/2001 at 9:52 PM -0500, Tom Kiffe wrote:

>1) The full installation of CMacTeX gives you a basic TeX installation
>that works in both OS 9 and OS X. The installation can be done in either
>OS 9 or OS X, the only difference being the location of your Preferences
>folder. The installation process has been greatly simplified.

Let me begin by saying that this is fantastic! Now for some questions
... see below.

>
>2) If you already have teTeX installed on OS X you can download just one
>file which contains all of the Carbon binaries and the support files
>specific to CMacTeX. The teTeX texmf tree can be used with CMacTeX.
>Version 4.0 fully supports alias folders so you can put CMacTeX on any
>partition. (With the previous beta release CMacTeX had to be installed
>on the root partition.)

If we installed teTeX obtained from the TeXShop web page, should we
install the distribution (the archive texmflib.sit.bin???) found on
your page (since it is probably a newer distribution)? If so, will
the installer simply overwrite the TeXShop distribution or do we need
to go through additional UNIX contortions?

>5) Currently CMacTeX contains the only native dvi previewer for OS X which
>does not require the installation of the X Window System. If a dvi file
>has been prepared with the srcltx package, a click in a displayed page
>will take you back to the editor and the editor will highlight the first
>line of the selected paragraph. This feature currently works only with
>BBEdit and Alpha because only these editors have the needed Apple Event
>support.

I assume that dvi files created with CMacTeX are of this type?

>
>6) Macintosh Postscript fonts can be used with CMacTeX's dvips and pdftex.
>You do not have to convert your Lucida or MathTime Postscript fonts into
>pfb format.

Are there instructions for how to do this in your documentation? In
addition, does pdftex do 100% embedding of fonts in pdf documents?
This seems to be very important for other people to be able to read
my/your/anyone's pdf documents with everything showing up properly.

Thank you,
--
    Gary L. Gray
    Associate Professor
    Engineering Science & Mechanics
    Penn State University
    (814) 863-1778
    http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:54:11 -0400

On 5/31/2001 at 11:14 PM -0400, Bryan S. Morse wrote:

>And while we're at it: running under Classic doesn't cut it--a Carbonized
>version of Textures is needed!  I hate having to restart Textures because
>another Classic app crashes.

I apologize for posting to both lists since I know that many of you
are on both, but I thought I should send this to everyone.

Here is my two cents and then some ...

I completely agree that a Carbonized version of Textures is needed.
Blue Sky (i.e., Barry Smith) has stated:

At 3:19 PM -0700 4/1/2001, Barry Smith wrote:

>Yes, we do
>have plans to make Textures a native OS X application.  It will
>not, however, be something that will happen quickly, and we
>do not, as a rule, publicize schedule information about our product
>plans.  We are very pleased to find that Textures as it is apparently
>runs perfectly under the OS X Classic environment; Apple has
>corrected the system problem which caused printing difficulties,
>and we know of no problems with Textures and OS X at this time.
>
>Our plans for Textures and OS X are, as our users might expect,
>to do more than to just "Carbonize" the existing Textures application,
>more than to just "make it native" with no fundamental or feature
>changes.  We have the opportunity, and we plan to invest the effort,
>to completely re-implement Textures: to take what we have learned
>in the (yes) fifteen years of Textures' existence to simplify and enhance
>the user interface and the underlying organization and structures that
>make Textures what it is.  Textures for OS X will share little, if any,
>code from the current Textures, but will contain most of its concepts
>and all of our learning about TeX and its users.
>
>Recently we circulated a request for information from our users as
>to your expectations and desires for your moving to OS X, and we
>were extremely pleased with the response, which was voluminous
>and (nearly) unequivocal: Textures users are at the forefront and will
>be choosing to move to OS X, with deliberate speed and high expectations.
>
>We wish that we could say that Textures for OS X will be out "real
>soon now", but we, and you, know that that could not be the case,
>when you understand the scope of our plans for the native environment.
>We are naturally pleased and (of course :) not surprised that the current
>Textures runs well under the Classic environment, and we are surely
>confident that Textures will rarely (if ever) be the cause of Classic crashes.
>As the OS X platform makes it practical and desirable to support PDF
>as an illustration format, we will if it is feasible issue an interim
>Classic Textures which offers support for PDF illustrations.

I read this as "don't hold your breath waiting for a Mac OS X version
of Textures". I am, as many others seem to be, very disappointed that
we are all going to have to find other solutions. Tom Kiffe and
Richard Koch et al. have come through with OS X solutions and it
appears that people are going to switch and never look back. I am not
interested in having to run something in Classic when a Mac OS X
version is available. I, and my students, have been using both
CMacTeX and TeXShop as we try and decide which will be our choice for
Mac OS X. At last week's WWDC, Jobs said that surveys have
overwhelmingly shown that people are more interested in native
solutions than they are in brand loyalty --- it seems to me that Blue
Sky should be very worried in light of this information. I have been
told that Blue Sky is developing a Windows version of Textures. If
this is true, then I think Blue Sky is making a terrible mistake.
They are arriving pretty late to the Windows game and will have
difficulty penetrating that market. This is on top of the fact that
their loyal Mac customers are going to find other solutions rather
than waiting to switch to Mac OS X. I know Blue Sky is a small
company with limited resources, but it seems to me (and I am sure
many of you will tell me if you think I am wrong) that they should be
concentrating their efforts on their CURRENT loyal customer base
rather than a NONEXISTENT FUTURE customer base that may never
materialize.

I would love to hear what other people think (please mail to the list
rather than to just me so that we can have a discussion on this
matter). Maybe if there is a large enough cry, we can have three
choices instead of two. :-)

Best regards,
--
    Gary L. Gray
    Associate Professor
    Engineering Science & Mechanics
    Penn State University
    (814) 863-1778
    http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Zachary Davis" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:40:08 -0500

Thursday, 31 May 2001


Dr. Gray,

I absolutely agree, I have recently turned to Textures to learn TeX as
well as LaTeX, and have just this past semester become comfortable in
writing TeX and LaTeX documents.  I would much prefer to use a native
TeX/LaTeX setup, rather than Textures in Classic.  However, I am not
sure what all the various programs that all of you are running to do
your TeX/LaTeX writing are actually used for (i.e. TeX Shop, CMacTex,
etc.)  I understand that an editor such as BBedit is required; though
I've never used that before either.

Textures was convenient in that everything seemed bundled together as
far as fonts, various packages, editor, etc.  I also really like the
sychronizing feature of Textures, which allows the user to see the .dvi
output file as you add to your input file.  If anyone has the time, to
explain how I might set up my Ti Book to run TeX/LaTeX natively under OS
X in a manner similar to what I have learned to expect in Textures, I
would be much obliged.  It would be nice to know what TeX Engine I need,
if there are any weird installation procedures, ease of use, editor of
choice, additional fonts I need to install, any packages I need to run
LaTeX, pdf viewers, and whether it is possible to see the output as I
type.

I am saddened to see Blue Sky not carbonizing their software, as I
believe Steve Jobs is correct in saying that early adopters are looking
for native applications to run, not brand loyalty.  I just downloaded
the new version of OmniWeb, and am thoroughly impressed.

Thanks,

Zach Davis
On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 10:54  PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:

> On 5/31/2001 at 11:14 PM -0400, Bryan S. Morse wrote:
>
>> And while we're at it: running under Classic doesn't cut it--a
>> Carbonized
>> version of Textures is needed!  I hate having to restart Textures
>> because
>> another Classic app crashes.
>
> I apologize for posting to both lists since I know that many of you are
> on both, but I thought I should send this to everyone.
>
> Here is my two cents and then some ...
>
> I completely agree that a Carbonized version of Textures is needed.
> Blue Sky (i.e., Barry Smith) has stated:
>
> At 3:19 PM -0700 4/1/2001, Barry Smith wrote:
>
>> Yes, we do
>> have plans to make Textures a native OS X application.  It will
>> not, however, be something that will happen quickly, and we
>> do not, as a rule, publicize schedule information about our product
>> plans.  We are very pleased to find that Textures as it is apparently
>> runs perfectly under the OS X Classic environment; Apple has
>> corrected the system problem which caused printing difficulties,
>> and we know of no problems with Textures and OS X at this time.
>>
>> Our plans for Textures and OS X are, as our users might expect,
>> to do more than to just "Carbonize" the existing Textures application,
>> more than to just "make it native" with no fundamental or feature
>> changes.  We have the opportunity, and we plan to invest the effort,
>> to completely re-implement Textures: to take what we have learned
>> in the (yes) fifteen years of Textures' existence to simplify and
>> enhance
>> the user interface and the underlying organization and structures that
>> make Textures what it is.  Textures for OS X will share little, if any,
>> code from the current Textures, but will contain most of its concepts
>> and all of our learning about TeX and its users.
>>
>> Recently we circulated a request for information from our users as
>> to your expectations and desires for your moving to OS X, and we
>> were extremely pleased with the response, which was voluminous
>> and (nearly) unequivocal: Textures users are at the forefront and will
>> be choosing to move to OS X, with deliberate speed and high
>> expectations.
>>
>> We wish that we could say that Textures for OS X will be out "real
>> soon now", but we, and you, know that that could not be the case,
>> when you understand the scope of our plans for the native environment.
>> We are naturally pleased and (of course :) not surprised that the
>> current
>> Textures runs well under the Classic environment, and we are surely
>> confident that Textures will rarely (if ever) be the cause of Classic
>> crashes.
>> As the OS X platform makes it practical and desirable to support PDF
>> as an illustration format, we will if it is feasible issue an interim
>> Classic Textures which offers support for PDF illustrations.
>
> I read this as "don't hold your breath waiting for a Mac OS X version
> of Textures". I am, as many others seem to be, very disappointed that
> we are all going to have to find other solutions. Tom Kiffe and Richard
> Koch et al. have come through with OS X solutions and it appears that
> people are going to switch and never look back. I am not interested in
> having to run something in Classic when a Mac OS X version is
> available. I, and my students, have been using both CMacTeX and TeXShop
> as we try and decide which will be our choice for Mac OS X. At last
> week's WWDC, Jobs said that surveys have overwhelmingly shown that
> people are more interested in native solutions than they are in brand
> loyalty --- it seems to me that Blue Sky should be very worried in
> light of this information. I have been told that Blue Sky is developing
> a Windows version of Textures. If this is true, then I think Blue Sky
> is making a terrible mistake. They are arriving pretty late to the
> Windows game and will have difficulty penetrating that market. This is
> on top of the fact that their loyal Mac customers are going to find
> other solutions rather than waiting to switch to Mac OS X. I know Blue
> Sky is a small company with limited resources, but it seems to me (and
> I am sure many of you will tell me if you think I am wrong) that they
> should be concentrating their efforts on their CURRENT loyal customer
> base rather than a NONEXISTENT FUTURE customer base that may never
> materialize.
>
> I would love to hear what other people think (please mail to the list
> rather than to just me so that we can have a discussion on this
> matter). Maybe if there is a large enough cry, we can have three
> choices instead of two. :-)
>
> Best regards,
> --    Gary L. Gray
>    Associate Professor
>    Engineering Science & Mechanics
>    Penn State University
>    (814) 863-1778
>    http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

========================================================
Zachary S. Davis
Department of Aerospace Engineering
University of Texas at Arlington
P.O. Box 19032
Arlington, TX 76019

Home: (817) 272-6418 [hidden email]
Office: (817) 272-5269

         ?Throughout the centuries there were men who took
          first steps down new roads armed with nothing
          but their own vision.?
                                 -Ayn Rand
========================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Gary L. Gray" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:46:28 -0400

On 5/31/2001 at 11:40 PM -0500, Zachary Davis wrote:

>I absolutely agree, I have recently turned to Textures to learn TeX
>as well as LaTeX, and have just this past semester become
>comfortable in writing TeX and LaTeX documents.  I would much prefer
>to use a native TeX/LaTeX setup, rather than Textures in Classic.
>However, I am not sure what all the various programs that all of you
>are running to do your TeX/LaTeX writing are actually used for (i.e.
>TeX Shop, CMacTex, etc.)  I understand that an editor such as BBedit
>is required; though I've never used that before either.
>
>Textures was convenient in that everything seemed bundled together
>as far as fonts, various packages, editor, etc.  I also really like
>the sychronizing feature of Textures, which allows the user to see
>the .dvi output file as you add to your input file.  If anyone has
>the time, to explain how I might set up my Ti Book to run TeX/LaTeX
>natively under OS X in a manner similar to what I have learned to
>expect in Textures, I would be much obliged.  It would be nice to
>know what TeX Engine I need, if there are any weird installation
>procedures, ease of use, editor of choice, additional fonts I need
>to install, any packages I need to run LaTeX, pdf viewers, and
>whether it is possible to see the output as I type.

I think the above statements are an important message to both Tom
Kiffe and Richard Koch. Many of us are not coming from TeX in the
UNIX world, we are coming from TeX in the Mac world with Textures. We
need REALLY detailed and complete instructions on how to do install
and run things under Mac OS X. This is especially true for fonts and
associated files. We need to know where to put the fonts, what config
files need messing with, etc.

Best regards,

--
    Gary L. Gray
    Associate Professor
    Engineering Science & Mechanics
    Penn State University
    (814) 863-1778
    http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Warren Nagourney" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:18:56 -0700

I would like to echo Gary's sentiments - I wholeheartedly agree with him
and am very very disappointed in Barry's decision regarding the future
direction of Blue Sky. I have purchased every version of TeXtures since it
first came out and must have invested several thousand dollars in this
product. I am stunned by the egregious lack of reciprocal loyalty shown by
this company. I read one of the early letters by (I believe) Barry on the
subject, where he states that TeXtures runs perfectly well in Classic and
gives the impression that this is its future, so far as Blue Sky is
concerned. He further mentioned Apple's change of position regarding the
use of display postscript and Yellow Box for windows, indicating that this
"disloyalty" on Apple's part justifies the dismissal of OS X as a future
for TeXtures. I needn't state my reaction to this position - from what I
have written above, it should be obvious.

I agree that Blue Sky's venture into the windows market will be almost
certainly a complete disaster - I happen to know that Barry is getting a
lot of correspondence on this subject and won't beat a dead horse. I mourn
the loss of a great product and am glad this list exists to explore other
avenues for Mac TeX users.

I fear that we are wasting our time in attempting to exhort Blue Sky to
change its direction - the Carbon strategy has been out for more than 2
years and a company which has just begun to explore OS X avenues (and is
trying to enter the wintel market) has extremely little likelihood of
listening to us. Our best efforts should be probably be spent on improving
the alternatives (as we are doing).

Warren Nagourney

--On Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:54 PM -0400 "Gary L. Gray"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5/31/2001 at 11:14 PM -0400, Bryan S. Morse wrote:
>
>> And while we're at it: running under Classic doesn't cut it--a Carbonized
>> version of Textures is needed!  I hate having to restart Textures because
>> another Classic app crashes.
>
> I apologize for posting to both lists since I know that many of you
> are on both, but I thought I should send this to everyone.
>
> Here is my two cents and then some ...
>
> I completely agree that a Carbonized version of Textures is needed.
> Blue Sky (i.e., Barry Smith) has stated:
>
> At 3:19 PM -0700 4/1/2001, Barry Smith wrote:
>
>> Yes, we do
>> have plans to make Textures a native OS X application.  It will
>> not, however, be something that will happen quickly, and we
>> do not, as a rule, publicize schedule information about our product
>> plans.  We are very pleased to find that Textures as it is apparently
>> runs perfectly under the OS X Classic environment; Apple has
>> corrected the system problem which caused printing difficulties,
>> and we know of no problems with Textures and OS X at this time.
>>
>> Our plans for Textures and OS X are, as our users might expect,
>> to do more than to just "Carbonize" the existing Textures application,
>> more than to just "make it native" with no fundamental or feature
>> changes.  We have the opportunity, and we plan to invest the effort,
>> to completely re-implement Textures: to take what we have learned
>> in the (yes) fifteen years of Textures' existence to simplify and enhance
>> the user interface and the underlying organization and structures that
>> make Textures what it is.  Textures for OS X will share little, if any,
>> code from the current Textures, but will contain most of its concepts
>> and all of our learning about TeX and its users.
>>
>> Recently we circulated a request for information from our users as
>> to your expectations and desires for your moving to OS X, and we
>> were extremely pleased with the response, which was voluminous
>> and (nearly) unequivocal: Textures users are at the forefront and will
>> be choosing to move to OS X, with deliberate speed and high expectations.
>>
>> We wish that we could say that Textures for OS X will be out "real
>> soon now", but we, and you, know that that could not be the case,
>> when you understand the scope of our plans for the native environment.
>> We are naturally pleased and (of course :) not surprised that the current
>> Textures runs well under the Classic environment, and we are surely
>> confident that Textures will rarely (if ever) be the cause of Classic
>> crashes. As the OS X platform makes it practical and desirable to
>> support PDF as an illustration format, we will if it is feasible issue
>> an interim Classic Textures which offers support for PDF illustrations.
>
> I read this as "don't hold your breath waiting for a Mac OS X version
> of Textures". I am, as many others seem to be, very disappointed that
> we are all going to have to find other solutions. Tom Kiffe and
> Richard Koch et al. have come through with OS X solutions and it
> appears that people are going to switch and never look back. I am not
> interested in having to run something in Classic when a Mac OS X
> version is available. I, and my students, have been using both
> CMacTeX and TeXShop as we try and decide which will be our choice for
> Mac OS X. At last week's WWDC, Jobs said that surveys have
> overwhelmingly shown that people are more interested in native
> solutions than they are in brand loyalty --- it seems to me that Blue
> Sky should be very worried in light of this information. I have been
> told that Blue Sky is developing a Windows version of Textures. If
> this is true, then I think Blue Sky is making a terrible mistake.
> They are arriving pretty late to the Windows game and will have
> difficulty penetrating that market. This is on top of the fact that
> their loyal Mac customers are going to find other solutions rather
> than waiting to switch to Mac OS X. I know Blue Sky is a small
> company with limited resources, but it seems to me (and I am sure
> many of you will tell me if you think I am wrong) that they should be
> concentrating their efforts on their CURRENT loyal customer base
> rather than a NONEXISTENT FUTURE customer base that may never
> materialize.
>
> I would love to hear what other people think (please mail to the list
> rather than to just me so that we can have a discussion on this
> matter). Maybe if there is a large enough cry, we can have three
> choices instead of two. :-)
>
> Best regards,
> --
>     Gary L. Gray
>     Associate Professor
>     Engineering Science & Mechanics
>     Penn State University
>     (814) 863-1778
>     http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warren Nagourney   <[hidden email]>  Voice: 206-543-9585
University of Washington                                      206-543-0143
Physics Dept., Box 351560, Seattle, WA 98195             Fax: 206-685-0635


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Barry Smith" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:18:54 -0700



"Gary L. Gray" wrote:
>
> Here is my two cents and then some ...
>
> I completely agree that a Carbonized version of Textures is needed.
>

> > We wish that we could say that Textures for OS X will be out "real
> > soon now", but we, and you, know that that could not be the case,
> > when you understand the scope of our plans for the native environment.

> I read this as "don't hold your breath waiting for a Mac OS X version
> of Textures".

This is a correct, and honest, understanding of my expressed position,
considering that our plans have been to offer "something more than Textures"
as it is now.  We can't, and don't, expect even our loyal customers to
wait around twiddling their collective thumbs while waiting for our next
product. If you need a native OS X TeX today, it cannot come from Blue Sky Research.

We do, however, make a concerted effort to listen to our customers.
It was my expectation and understanding that a "pure Carbon" version
of Textures would be of little interest or import to our customers --
I am perfectly willing to be corrected on this understanding, if indeed
our current customers wish us to understand something else.

(I note, with a smile, and with about thirty years of experience in the
software business, that our customers are quite naturally willing to
be "optimistic" about the development efforts required to do that which
-appears- not to be difficult -- such is definitely true of a Carbon Textures.
I note, also, that our development resources are very finite, so we attempt
to employ them intelligently.  If our customers indicate to us, quantitatively,
that a Carbon Textures "as is", perhaps even -missing- current features, is of
high importance AND high value to them, we most assuredly are listening.)

> I am, as many others seem to be, very disappointed that
> we are all going to have to find other solutions. Tom Kiffe and
> Richard Koch et al. have come through with OS X solutions and it
> appears that people are going to switch and never look back. I am not
> interested in having to run something in Classic when a Mac OS X
> version is available. I, and my students, have been using both
> CMacTeX and TeXShop as we try and decide which will be our choice for
> Mac OS X. At last week's WWDC, Jobs said that surveys have
> overwhelmingly shown that people are more interested in native
> solutions than they are in brand loyalty --- it seems to me that Blue
> Sky should be very worried in light of this information.

I understand that Mr. Jobs was also informed most directly by the developers
that Apple has been shortsighted in not making available more robust and
more efficient development tools. :)

> I have been
> told that Blue Sky is developing a Windows version of Textures. If
> this is true, then I think Blue Sky is making a terrible mistake.
> They are arriving pretty late to the Windows game and will have
> difficulty penetrating that market. This is on top of the fact that
> their loyal Mac customers are going to find other solutions rather
> than waiting to switch to Mac OS X. I know Blue Sky is a small
> company with limited resources, but it seems to me (and I am sure
> many of you will tell me if you think I am wrong) that they should be
> concentrating their efforts on their CURRENT loyal customer base
> rather than a NONEXISTENT FUTURE customer base that may never
> materialize.

Gary, I think our president will have some words to say about your
market analysis.  Permit me to say that, while I understand your position,
it could (if true) apply perhaps even more forcefully to our developments
relating Quark XPress and TeX.  Our -existing- customers, we have found,
are almost completely not only not Quark users but are unaware that it exists.
(I would have guessed less than 5% overlap; it seems actually to be less than
0.1 percent!)

> I would love to hear what other people think (please mail to the list
> rather than to just me so that we can have a discussion on this
> matter). Maybe if there is a large enough cry, we can have three
> choices instead of two. :-)

I agree.  If it is clearly expressed that our loyal customers would have
a strong preference for a Carbon Textures ASAP, understanding that it would
surely not have new features and would in the interests of time most likely
in fact be -missing- some current features, this is a message that we would
be perfectly willing to hear.

"You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."  :)


Best regards,

Barry Smith

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Michael Murray" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:11:24 +0930

>Thursday, 31 May 2001
>



>   If anyone has the time, to explain how I might set up my Ti Book
>to run TeX/LaTeX natively under OS X in a manner similar to what I
>have learned to expect in Textures, I would be much obliged.  It
>would be nice to know what TeX Engine I need, if there are any weird
>installation procedures, ease of use, editor of choice, additional
>fonts I need to install, any packages I need to run LaTeX, pdf
>viewers, and whether it is possible to see the output as I type.
>




>Zach Davis
>On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 10:54  PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:
>

Dear Zach,

I have never used Textures although my wife has it and thereby I have
some experience being the family mac expert.
But I have been a long time user of OzTeX and Alpha.   Neither are
carbonised yet so I have been experimenting
with both TeXShop and CMacTeX.  If you want a straightforward setup,
with a minimalist editor,  I'd go
for TeXShop.

Catches are:

(*) No synchronicity (never tested this myself in textures - my wife
never bought the upgrade)

(*) No live texing as you type - you have to typset - its pretty fast.

(*) Because it is pdflatex or pdftex it doesn't let you include
postscript graphics.    You need to convert them with something to
pdf. The simplest thing is Tom Kiffes MacGhostView
which has a little ps2pdf script you can drag and drop onto.

(*) There are instructions on the TeXShop page about
setting it up.  It does need a little command line work in Terminal.
I have a feeling this is going to be a
feature of OSX!  If you are working in a University environment like
I am a little UNIX knowledge is I think
a worthwhile investment and UNIX is very prevalent.  For some time
mine knowledge has been:

(1) Knowing how to get in and out of a document and edit and replace in vi.

(2) Knowing how see invisible files with ls -a

(3) Knowing how to look up processes with ps -xu and to kill them

(4) Knowing how to use rm, cp, mv and to a lesser exent gzip and tar.
I have no idea what all the options
on this commands mean I just use them!

(5) Knowing how look something up on a man page.


Since getting  OSX and hence having root privileges I know how to

(6) Sudo (very carefully :-) )

If you want to do more complicated things and don't mind a bit more
complicated setup get
CMacTeX.

Actually I would   get  both as they are both cheap and can share
files.  You are going to
need MacGhostView anyway if you even want to include a ps file in
your pdflatex.

Michael

PS [OFF-TOPIC] Isn't the TiBook wonderful :-)
--
_________________________________________________________
Assoc/Prof Michael Murray                                                  
Department of Pure Mathematics       Fax: 61+ 8 8303
3696                                      
University of Adelaide             Phone: 61+ 8 8303 4174      
Australia  5005      Email: [hidden email]            
Home Page: http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/pure/mmurray
PGP public key:
http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/pure/mmurray/pgp.txt
_________________________________________________________


   



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "karim daho" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:19:15 +0200

I absolutely agree and hope that Tom Kiffe and Richard Koch are reading  
this and thanks them for the wonderfull work they are doing.
On fredag, juni 1, 2001, at 06:46 , Gary L. Gray wrote:

> On 5/31/2001 at 11:40 PM -0500, Zachary Davis wrote:
>
>> I absolutely agree, I have recently turned to Textures to learn TeX as
>> well as LaTeX, and have just this past semester become comfortable in
>> writing TeX and LaTeX documents.  I would much prefer to use a native
>> TeX/LaTeX setup, rather than Textures in Classic. However, I am not
>> sure what all the various programs that all of you are running to do
>> your TeX/LaTeX writing are actually used for (i.e. TeX Shop, CMacTex,
>> etc.)  I understand that an editor such as BBedit is required; though
>> I've never used that before either.
>>
>> Textures was convenient in that everything seemed bundled together as
>> far as fonts, various packages, editor, etc.  I also really like the
>> sychronizing feature of Textures, which allows the user to see the
>> .dvi output file as you add to your input file.  If anyone has the
>> time, to explain how I might set up my Ti Book to run TeX/LaTeX
>> natively under OS X in a manner similar to what I have learned to
>> expect in Textures, I would be much obliged.  It would be nice to know
>> what TeX Engine I need, if there are any weird installation
>> procedures, ease of use, editor of choice, additional fonts I need to
>> install, any packages I need to run LaTeX, pdf viewers, and whether it
>> is possible to see the output as I type.
>
> I think the above statements are an important message to both Tom Kiffe
> and Richard Koch. Many of us are not coming from TeX in the UNIX world,
> we are coming from TeX in the Mac world with Textures. We need REALLY
> detailed and complete instructions on how to do install and run things
> under Mac OS X. This is especially true for fonts and associated files.
> We need to know where to put the fonts, what config files need messing
> with, etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> --    Gary L. Gray
>    Associate Professor
>    Engineering Science & Mechanics
>    Penn State University
>    (814) 863-1778
>    http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
From: "Graham A. Niblo" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:19:42 +0100

Could I add a wish for a preference setting in TeXShop that allows TeX
documents to be saved as bundles with the pdf and log files included in
the bundle, much as TeXtures  includes the dvi file in the resource
fork? That together with a save as command to allow the files to be
saved separately would allow for cross platform compatibility, but keep
all the associated files together. The proliferation of files in my
documents folder is getting out of hand. Some kind of built in
versioning control would be good too, maybe the save dialogue could
prompt to update the to include new versions without deleting the old if
required?

Great program, great mailing list.

Graham Niblo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] wish list
From: "Martin Bauer" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:16:21 +0200

On Freitag, Juni 1, 2001, at 10:19  Uhr, Graham A. Niblo wrote:

> Could I add a wish for a preference setting in TeXShop that allows TeX
> documents to be saved as bundles with the pdf and log files included in
> the bundle, much as TeXtures  includes the dvi file in the resource
> fork?

i like that idea :)

> Some kind of built in versioning control would be good too, maybe the
> save dialogue could prompt to update the to include new versions
> without deleting the old if required?

i do not think that you need to re-invent versioning for each
application. for tex files which are in fact pure ascii text using cvs
works great on OS X. one could think about integrating cvs somehow into
TeXShop, but since you need at least rudimentary unix shell knowldge to
set up your local cvs repository anyways, probably you could expect
enough knowledge to do a "cvs commit" by hand once in a while.

--
shalom, martin

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Timothy Larkin" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 07:32:00 -0400


On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 11:54 , Gary L. Gray wrote:

>
> I read this as "don't hold your breath waiting for a Mac OS X version
> of Textures".

As I understand it, BlueSky has said there won't be a _Carbon_ version
of Textures. This does not mean no Textures for X. It means (to me) that
BS has made the reasonable decision not to produce an interim Carbon
solution, but to go directly to Cocoa, and create a product that is even
better than Textures. If this is the case, then I can live for a while
with the suboptimal solution of using Textures in the Classic
environment.

No doubt someone will enlighten me if I am mistaken.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: TeXShop *.bib-file bug?
From: "Martin Bauer" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:06:45 +0200

i am actually not sure if this is a bug or if it is my own fault that
its not working:

here's the scenario:
i open a *.bib file, do some changes there.
the red button gets correctly the "dirty" mark, but "File > Save" does
not work (is disabled)
nevertheless, when i close the window, i get the dialog asking me if i
want to save the changes, i press "Yes" and the changes are in fact
saved.

this behaviour is reproducible on my system with any *.bib file i tried.

can somebody confirm or disprove this for me?

thanks.
martin.

--
Martin A. Bauer                              WWW : http://www.macintum.de
Apple Beratungszentrum                       Mail: [hidden email]
Technische Universitaet Muenchen             Tel.: ++ 49 89 289 25725

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Bruno Voisin" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:55:21 +0200

Ten years ago I started using TeX, with Textures on a Mac. I have always
liked the integration, simplicity, robustness and elegance of its
interface. To be honest, it also paved the way for all subsequent TeX
implementations on the Mac. I never used extensively the sophisticated
features like Flash Mode or Synchronicity, which either require fast
machines (for the first) or create big files (for the second); so I
could easily live without them.

Over the years I got to use OzTeX in parallel (and DirectTeX too, for
some time), as soon as I started to collaborate with colleagues:  
unfortunately ;-), my colleagues generally work under UNIX/Linux or
Windows. OzTeX is easy to customize (so you can install LaTeX packages
and PS or MF fonts without fuss) and it includes most relevant UNIX
utilities - and it's also robust, bug-free, with a nice interface. And I
learnt a lot from the OzTeX manual at a time when information about
fonts etc. was difficult to find for a standard mortal (not a computer
scientist).

Anyhow I always stuck to Textures' editor, since (i) BBEdit has no real
TeX interface (just syntax coloring) and Soft Wrap seems incompatible
with TeX, and (ii) Alpha just crashes all the time, is unfriendly to
non-US keyboards and has no decent manual.

Now come Mac OS X and TeXShop. TeXShop has the integration, simplicity,
robustness and elegance I like so much in Textures, and the use of the
teTeX tree is a blessing: now I can collaborate with my UNIX colleagues
within and outside my lab with no additional work.

Also, after a couple of months living with Mac OS X I would do anything
rather than launching Classic (well, for Mathematica I still do, but
that's the only case): at last I can get rid of extensions, which were
just conflicting with one another all the time, there are very few
system crashes, the memory management is transparent, and the interface
is so much nicer.

So yes, please, let there be an OS X Textures as soon as possible. Yes,
Cocoa is better than Carbon, but only insofar as it comes soon enough: I
guess most people, like me, will be using an OS X TeX (either TeXShop or
CMacTeX) until an OS X Textures - if any - is born, and the longer they
do so the less tempting it will be to switch back to Textures.

Bruno Voisin

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How to install *.cls files for TeXShop?
From: "laurens" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:18:49 +0200

>I downloaded an AIAA (unofficial) LaTeX package
><http://abftp.larc.nasa.gov/~kleb/aiaa/>.  I did a little detective
>work and found out that I could set a variable, TEXINPUTS, to use
>it's *.cls file.  Now, I did that and pdfLaTeX finds the file when
>run from the command line.  When TeXShop runs pdfLaTeX, it doesn't
>find it.  What to do?
>
>I set the variable in my .cshrc.  Clearly, my .cshrc file isn't being
>run for TeXShop.


TeXshop does not launch its tex jobs through a terminal and does not read for
environment variables. It would be difficult to do such things because people
may use different shells (sh, csh, bash...) and the variables may differ.

You should put your extra classes in the right location of your texmf
ditribution,
anyone but me expert in tetex will answer you.


        LAURENS Jerome
Analyse Appliquee & Optimisation      tel : (+33) (0)3 80 39 58 76
    9 Avenue Alain Savary             fax : (+33) (0)3 80 39 58 90
            BP 47870               courriel : [hidden email]
     F-21078 DIJON Cedex



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Richard Koch" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:52:56 -0700

Folks,

On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 09:46 PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:

> I think the above statements are an important message to both Tom Kiffe
> and Richard Koch. Many of us are not coming from TeX in the UNIX world,
> we are coming from TeX in the Mac world with Textures. We need REALLY
> detailed and complete instructions on how to do install and run things
> under Mac OS X.

I agree.

Improved installation and teTeX instructions are coming. Our term ends in
two weeks; hold on.

Dick
[hidden email]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "karim" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 18:55:12 +0200

 We will wait---
Karim
On 01-06-01 15.52, "Richard Koch" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 09:46 PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:
>
>> I think the above statements are an important message to both Tom Kiffe
>> and Richard Koch. Many of us are not coming from TeX in the UNIX world,
>> we are coming from TeX in the Mac world with Textures. We need REALLY
>> detailed and complete instructions on how to do install and run things
>> under Mac OS X.
>
> I agree.
>
> Improved installation and teTeX instructions are coming. Our term ends in
> two weeks; hold on.
>
> Dick
> [hidden email]
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Jon Guyer" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:52:29 -0400

At 7:32 AM -0400 6/1/01, Timothy Larkin wrote:
>If this is the case, then
>I can live for a while with the suboptimal solution of using
>Textures in the Classic environment.

Please let us know how the breath-holding goes. Gary didn't say
never, he said not soon... and Barry agreed with that
characterization.

--

   Jonathan E. Guyer
   <http://www.his.com/jguyer/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
From: "Jon Guyer" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:01:51 -0400

At 9:52 PM -0500 5/31/01, Tom Kiffe wrote:

>(I hope a Carbon version of Alpha appears soon.)

So do we, but we're still working on it.

--

   Jonathan E. Guyer
   <http://www.his.com/jguyer/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Arthur Ogus" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:09:13 -0700

My understanding is that Blue Sky is still trying to evaluate the
cost of and the market for its various options.  Communicate with
them and try to tell them what you want.
--
Arthur Ogus

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "karim daho" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:13:23 +0200

We want Textures to work on MacOSX
On fredag, juni 1, 2001, at 10:09 , Arthur Ogus wrote:

> My understanding is that Blue Sky is still trying to evaluate the cost
> of and the market for its various options.  Communicate with them and
> try to tell them what you want.
> -- Arthur Ogus
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to <[hidden email]> with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an editorial
From: "Martin Stokhof" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:18:52 +0200

I think my feelings on this issue are more or less in agreement with the
majority of the opinions I've read so far.  But since Gary Gray asked
people to respond I'll state them anyway.
I've been using Textures since I don't know how long (before postscript
CM fonts anyway). But I want to (and soon will need to) make the switch
to OS X. So I've downloaded TeXShop and CMacTeX and starting using them.
I really appreciate the efforts that Richard Koch and Tom Kiffe and
others have put into these applications, and I am grateful to them for
making the results freely available. But I must admit that I miss the
compactness and robustness of Textures. And I especially miss
synchronicity.  I for one would be willing to pay for a carbonized
version ofTextures, but not if synchronicity were dropped.
But such a carbonized version of Textures should not take too long to
become available. Running Textures in Classic is akward  and given my
set up is not really an option anyway. So I guess it might not take that
long before I learn to accept life (well, work ;-) without synchronicity
and make the switch to TeXShop and/or CMacTeX.

Martin Stokhof

----
ILLC/Department of Philosophy, Faculty of Humanities, Universiteit van
Amsterdam
Nieuwe Doelenstraat 15, NL-1012 CP Amsterdam, The Netherlands
phone: +31 20 5254540, fax: +31 20 5254503, http:
turing.wins.uva.nl/~stokhof

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] CMacTeX 4.0
From: "Paolo Ghirardato" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:32:38 -0700

>Version 4.0 of CMacTeX for Mac OS X and OS 9 can be downloaded from the
>CMacTeX Home Page at http://www.kiffe.com/cmactex.html. This release
>supersedes the previous OS X beta release included with CMacTeX 3.7.

A stupid question --- but possibly a problem that some other inept
people like me could face.

I downloaded all the CMacTeX package and installed it according to
instructions (I already had teTeX and TeXShop installed). It seems to
be working fine, with one exception: Macdvi does not render some
fonts correctly in the previewer window. I imagine that this is
because it is not finding the fonts where it's expecting them.
Any suggestion as to how to fix this? (Notice that I have also
Textures installed, and its previewer has no problems.)

Also a more trivial question: Why not use OS X's Preview as a pdf
previewer with CMacTeX? I tried setting it as the pdf previewer of
choice, but when I used CMacTeX to do pdflatex, it opened a dialogue
asking to choose an application to do preview with.

paolo

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Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [Textures] Textures and Mac OS X - an  editorial
From: "Paolo Ghirardato" <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:36:31 -0700

>Martin Stokhof wrote:

>I've been using Textures since I don't know how long (before
>postscript CM fonts anyway). But I want to (and soon will need to)
>make the switch to OS X. So I've downloaded TeXShop and CMacTeX and
>starting using them.
>I really appreciate the efforts that Richard Koch and Tom Kiffe and
>others have put into these applications, and I am grateful to them
>for making the results freely available. But I must admit that I
>miss the compactness and robustness of Textures. And I especially
>miss synchronicity.  I for one would be willing to pay for a
>carbonized version ofTextures, but not if synchronicity were dropped.
>But such a carbonized version of Textures should not take too long
>to become available. Running Textures in Classic is akward  and
>given my set up is not really an option anyway. So I guess it might
>not take that long before I learn to accept life (well, work ;-)
>without synchronicity and make the switch to TeXShop and/or CMacTeX.

I fully agree with Martin's opinion. A carbonized version of Textures
soon would be certainly most welcome, but not if the cost is losing
synchronicity, which is what I miss the most of Textures. (I
certainly don't miss the editor -- sorry Barry!)
paolo

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