Re: List of feature requests on this list

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
23 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Alain Schremmer-2
If the preview of a compiled file could be split, and even better,  
split the way the source file is, that would make my life  
considerably easier. (When editing, I often have to keep  
modifications consistent in two or more different places.)

Is it because it isn't possible with Preview and that I should direct  
my request to Apple?

Or is it that I am using TeXShop with Apple's Distiller ? and that I  
should direct my request to Apple?

Any comment?

Hopeful regards
--schremmer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Alessandro Andretta
Dear Alain,

I must confess I do not understand what you mean by 'splitting the  
compiled file'.
Do you mean: if the (La)TeX file inputs several ancillary files  
(\include chapter1.tex , \include chapter2.tex, and so on)
then you would like to have some sort of marks in he pdf that indicate  
which part comes from which ancillary file?

Probably you mean something else - apologies for my lack of  
understanding.

Regards,

        --aa

On 4 Jul 2008, at 18:41, Alain Schremmer wrote:

> If the preview of a compiled file could be split, and even better,  
> split the way the source file is, that would make my life  
> considerably easier. (When editing, I often have to keep  
> modifications consistent in two or more different places.)
>
> Is it because it isn't possible with Preview and that I should  
> direct my request to Apple?
>
> Or is it that I am using TeXShop with Apple's Distiller ? and that I  
> should direct my request to Apple?
>
> Any comment?
>
> Hopeful regards
> --schremmer----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting  
> -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Gary L. Gray
I suspect he means split the PDF preview window like you can split the  
source window. If that is what he means, then I second this request.  
It would be great to be able to do that.

-- Gary




On Jul 7, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Alessandro Andretta wrote:

> Dear Alain,
>
> I must confess I do not understand what you mean by 'splitting the  
> compiled file'.
> Do you mean: if the (La)TeX file inputs several ancillary files  
> (\include chapter1.tex , \include chapter2.tex, and so on)
> then you would like to have some sort of marks in he pdf that  
> indicate which part comes from which ancillary file?
>
> Probably you mean something else - apologies for my lack of  
> understanding.
>
> Regards,
>
> --aa
>
> On 4 Jul 2008, at 18:41, Alain Schremmer wrote:
>
>> If the preview of a compiled file could be split, and even better,  
>> split the way the source file is, that would make my life  
>> considerably easier. (When editing, I often have to keep  
>> modifications consistent in two or more different places.)
>>
>> Is it because it isn't possible with Preview and that I should  
>> direct my request to Apple?
>>
>> Or is it that I am using TeXShop with Apple's Distiller ? and that  
>> I should direct my request to Apple?
>>
>> Any comment?
>>
>> Hopeful regards
>> --schremmer----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting  
>> -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
>> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Peter Dyballa

Am 07.07.2008 um 16:47 schrieb Gary L. Gray:

> I suspect he means split the PDF preview window like you can split  
> the source window. If that is what he means, then I second this  
> request. It would be great to be able to do that.


There seems to be a work-around: create as many copies as you need  
views. You can save some space by creating hard links (just ln  
without -s). TeXShop then can display the same document in many  
independent (size, magnification, view-port) windows.

--
Greetings

   Pete                                           0
                                            %-/\_//
                                             (*)(*)


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Bruno Voisin-2
In reply to this post by Gary L. Gray
Le 7 juil. 08 à 16:47, Gary L. Gray a écrit :

> I suspect he means split the PDF preview window like you can split  
> the source window. If that is what he means, then I second this  
> request. It would be great to be able to do that.

TeXniscope offers this, thus it must be possible. Hence the way to do  
this must lie somewhere within TeXniscope's sources.

Though, with Dick (Koch) currently quite busy already with getting  
MacTeX-2008 out of the door, I suspect this will have to wait.

Bruno Voisin
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Adam M. Goldstein-4
Skim allows one to take "snapshots" of a PDF and save them in a  
sidebar. You can isolate one little part of the document and view only  
that part; and the snapshots float on top of the main window.

I wonder if Schremmer means something like: the source window is split  
between lines X and Y of input; and the output window is split  
similarly into two panes, one containing all the text up to and  
including what corresponds to line X and one with all that's after  
(and including) Y. The idea being to synchronize the split in the  
source and in the output.

I would second this version of the feature request, and also the  
simpler form of splitting, that is, just being able to split the  
output window at any old place, independently of the source splitting.

-Adam G.

On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Bruno Voisin wrote:

> Le 7 juil. 08 à 16:47, Gary L. Gray a écrit :
>
>> I suspect he means split the PDF preview window like you can split  
>> the source window. If that is what he means, then I second this  
>> request. It would be great to be able to do that.
>
> TeXniscope offers this, thus it must be possible. Hence the way to  
> do this must lie somewhere within TeXniscope's sources.
>
> Though, with Dick (Koch) currently quite busy already with getting  
> MacTeX-2008 out of the door, I suspect this will have to wait.
>
> Bruno Voisin----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting  
> -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>


=================================
Adam M. Goldstein PhD MSLIS
Assistant Professor of Philosophy
Iona College
--
email 1 [hidden email]
email 2 [hidden email]
web http://www.iona.edu/faculty/agoldstein/
tel (914) 637-2717
post Iona College
        Department of Philosophy
        715 North Avenue
        New Rochelle, NY 10801

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Ross Moore
Hi all,

This is an interesting discussion that has ramifications beyond
the editing phase of a TeX-constructed PDF.

On 08/07/2008, at 3:49 AM, Adam M. Goldstein wrote:
> Skim allows one to take "snapshots" of a PDF and save them in a  
> sidebar. You can isolate one little part of the document and view  
> only that part; and the snapshots float on top of the main window.

What I'd like is for one such floating window to be the target
of cross-reference hyperlinks in the main PDF viewing window.
That way you can check on the content of a cross-reference
without changing the view that is being used to read the paper.

Even better would be if the size of this "cross-reference spyglass"
would resize automatically, adapting to the size of the material
being referenced --- i.e., to the size of the rectangle associated
to the destination anchor, as well as respecting its view attributes.

That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or table,
changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or  
citation.


>
> I wonder if Schremmer means something like: the source window is  
> split between lines X and Y of input; and the output window is  
> split similarly into two panes, one containing all the text up to  
> and including what corresponds to line X and one with all that's  
> after (and including) Y. The idea being to synchronize the split in  
> the source and in the output.

That's rather how I interpreted the original posting.
But the idea extends to other interpretations too.
Basically, we want the PDF browser to allow multiple
windows viewing different places within the same PDF,
controlled to some extent from external events and/or
events generated by mouse clicks within one "main"
viewing window.


>
> I would second this version of the feature request, and also the  
> simpler form of splitting, that is, just being able to split the  
> output window at any old place, independently of the source splitting.

It may require support from Apple developers to implement this.
So the feature request must go beyond the MacTeX developers.

>
> -Adam G.


Hope this helps,

        Ross

>
> On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Bruno Voisin wrote:
>
>> Le 7 juil. 08 à 16:47, Gary L. Gray a écrit :
>>
>>> I suspect he means split the PDF preview window like you can  
>>> split the source window. If that is what he means, then I second  
>>> this request. It would be great to be able to do that.
>>
>> TeXniscope offers this, thus it must be possible. Hence the way to  
>> do this must lie somewhere within TeXniscope's sources.
>>
>> Though, with Dick (Koch) currently quite busy already with getting  
>> MacTeX-2008 out of the door, I suspect this will have to wait.
>>
>> Bruno Voisin----------- Please Consult the Following Before  
>> Posting -----------
>> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
>> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
>> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
>> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
>> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>>
>
>
> =================================
> Adam M. Goldstein PhD MSLIS
> Assistant Professor of Philosophy
> Iona College
> --
> email 1 [hidden email]
> email 2 [hidden email]
> web http://www.iona.edu/faculty/agoldstein/
> tel (914) 637-2717
> post Iona College
> Department of Philosophy
> 715 North Avenue
> New Rochelle, NY 10801
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------
> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq
> List Reminders and Etiquette: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/list/
> List Archive: http://tug.org/pipermail/macostex-archives/
> Mac-TeX Website: http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/
> List Info: http://email.esm.psu.edu/mailman/listinfo/macosx-tex
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

gmane archives out of date.

Owen Densmore
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bruno Voisin-2
The gmane archive is not keeping up with the list .. last entry I see  
is 14 June.  I'd like to search the archives before asking a question  
that's likely been answered already!  The mailman archives aren't  
easily searchable.

BTW: our group has found nabble a better overall list archive, and  
we're changing our existing gmane archives there.  Both isn't a bad  
idea either, redundancy is useful.

    -- Owen

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Jan Anderssen
In reply to this post by Ross Moore


> On 08/07/2008, at 3:49 AM, Adam M. Goldstein wrote:
>> Skim allows one to take "snapshots" of a PDF and save them in a  
>> sidebar. You can isolate one little part of the document and view  
>> only that part; and the snapshots float on top of the main window.
>
> What I'd like is for one such floating window to be the target
> of cross-reference hyperlinks in the main PDF viewing window.
> That way you can check on the content of a cross-reference
> without changing the view that is being used to read the paper.
>
> Even better would be if the size of this "cross-reference spyglass"
> would resize automatically, adapting to the size of the material
> being referenced --- i.e., to the size of the rectangle associated
> to the destination anchor, as well as respecting its view attributes.
>
> That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or  
> table,
> changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or  
> citation.

This is also something Skim does, or at least almost.

If you hover over a reference, a floating window pops up that shows  
the anchor point and some context around it, including the page number  
corresponding to the anchor. For the most part, that contains all the  
info you're looking for.

In my documents, I found that it works perfectly for references, but  
is a bit limited for tables and figures, presumable since I have the  
caption under the table/figure, and for some reason the caption ends  
up being at the top of the floating window. For references to  
footnotes, it goes somewhat astray. I mostly use the first case  
(references), so I'm very happy.

Jan

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Adam R. Maxwell
In reply to this post by Ross Moore
 
On Monday, July 07, 2008, at 02:52PM, "Ross Moore" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>This is an interesting discussion that has ramifications beyond
>the editing phase of a TeX-constructed PDF.
>
>On 08/07/2008, at 3:49 AM, Adam M. Goldstein wrote:
>> Skim allows one to take "snapshots" of a PDF and save them in a  
>> sidebar. You can isolate one little part of the document and view  
>> only that part; and the snapshots float on top of the main window.
>
>What I'd like is for one such floating window to be the target
>of cross-reference hyperlinks in the main PDF viewing window.
>That way you can check on the content of a cross-reference
>without changing the view that is being used to read the paper.

Skim does this when you command-click on a link in the PDF file.  It's quite handy for reading references.  It also tries to display a preview of the target when you hover over a link, but this has mixed results.

>Even better would be if the size of this "cross-reference spyglass"
>would resize automatically, adapting to the size of the material
>being referenced --- i.e., to the size of the rectangle associated
>to the destination anchor, as well as respecting its view attributes.
>
>That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or table,
>changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or  
>citation.

Skim also does this, to some extent.  There are compromises with remembering window positions, and also limitations of what information is available from the PDF itself.

This is all in addition to the splitview feature that Adam G. mentioned previously.

--
Adam
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Ross Moore
In reply to this post by Jan Anderssen
Hi Jan,

On 08/07/2008, at 8:14 AM, Jan Anderssen wrote:

>>
>>
>> That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or  
>> table,
>> changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or  
>> citation.
>
> This is also something Skim does, or at least almost.
>
> If you hover over a reference, a floating window pops up that shows  
> the anchor point and some context around it, including the page  
> number corresponding to the anchor. For the most part, that  
> contains all the info you're looking for.

Thanks for the tip.
I just tried this, with a paper that I've been working on.

It worked for the first cross-ref link that I tried,
except that it showed the wrong destination within the document,
showing a portion of page 17 rather than page 23.
Clicking the link went to the right place.
Only after 3 or 4 attempts did it sync to the correct place.

Furthermore, no other cross-reference links would work,
and none of the citation links.

Would you please send me (off-list) a PDF that works properly
for you, as I'd like to explore this feature.


The other thing that I'd like is to have this view
stay up as a moveable floating window.

>
> In my documents, I found that it works perfectly for references,  
> but is a bit limited for tables and figures, presumable since I  
> have the caption under the table/figure, and for some reason the  
> caption ends up being at the top of the floating window. For  
> references to footnotes, it goes somewhat astray. I mostly use the  
> first case (references), so I'm very happy.
>
> Jan


Cheers,

        Ross

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Herbert Schulz

On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:41 PM, Ross Moore wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> On 08/07/2008, at 8:14 AM, Jan Anderssen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or  
>>> table,
>>> changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or  
>>> citation.
>>
>> This is also something Skim does, or at least almost.
>>
>> If you hover over a reference, a floating window pops up that shows  
>> the anchor point and some context around it, including the page  
>> number corresponding to the anchor. For the most part, that  
>> contains all the info you're looking for.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
> I just tried this, with a paper that I've been working on.
>
> It worked for the first cross-ref link that I tried,
> except that it showed the wrong destination within the document,
> showing a portion of page 17 rather than page 23.
> Clicking the link went to the right place.
> Only after 3 or 4 attempts did it sync to the correct place.
>
> Furthermore, no other cross-reference links would work,
> and none of the citation links.
>
> Would you please send me (off-list) a PDF that works properly
> for you, as I'd like to explore this feature.
>
>
> The other thing that I'd like is to have this view
> stay up as a moveable floating window.
>
>>
>> In my documents, I found that it works perfectly for references,  
>> but is a bit limited for tables and figures, presumable since I  
>> have the caption under the table/figure, and for some reason the  
>> caption ends up being at the top of the floating window. For  
>> references to footnotes, it goes somewhat astray. I mostly use the  
>> first case (references), so I'm very happy.
>>
>> Jan
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ross
>

Howdy,

TeXShop's previewer doesn't do separate windows (after all, that was a  
request that started this thread) but if you click on a link it takes  
you there and then clicking on the left arrow in the tool bar (there  
are page up/down arrows but also leftright arrows) it will take you  
back to where you were.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
([hidden email])


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

gmane archives out of date.

Gary L. Gray
In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
Please don't hijack existing threads -- see the "List Reminders and  
Etiquette" link in the footer of this message.

On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> The gmane archive is not keeping up with the list .. last entry I  
> see is 14 June.  I'd like to search the archives before asking a  
> question that's likely been answered already!  The mailman archives  
> aren't easily searchable.

Thank you for noticing that. I just checked and I see that the address  
for gmane had been blocked due to excessive bouncing. I have unblocked  
it, though I have no idea why it would have excessively bounced and I  
also have no idea how to get the missing messages into the gmane  
archive. If someone knows how to do this, please let me know. It would  
be nice to have the missing messages included.

> BTW: our group has found nabble a better overall list archive, and  
> we're changing our existing gmane archives there.  Both isn't a bad  
> idea either, redundancy is useful.

What is it you prefer about Nabble over gmane? Can I move gmane  
archives to Nabble?

-- Gary
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

gmane archives out of date.

Owen Densmore
Administrator
On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:
> Please don't hijack existing threads -- see the "List Reminders and  
> Etiquette" link in the footer of this message.

Yikes! Not sure how I hijacked an existing thread.  Is there a "os x  
tex gmane" thread?  Anyway, sorry!

> On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>> The gmane archive is not keeping up with the list .. last entry I  
>> see is 14 June.  I'd like to search the archives before asking a  
>> question that's likely been answered already!  The mailman archives  
>> aren't easily searchable.
>
> Thank you for noticing that. I just checked and I see that the  
> address for gmane had been blocked due to excessive bouncing. I have  
> unblocked it, though I have no idea why it would have excessively  
> bounced and I also have no idea how to get the missing messages into  
> the gmane archive. If someone knows how to do this, please let me  
> know. It would be nice to have the missing messages included.
>
>> BTW: our group has found nabble a better overall list archive, and  
>> we're changing our existing gmane archives there.  Both isn't a bad  
>> idea either, redundancy is useful.
>
> What is it you prefer about Nabble over gmane? Can I move gmane  
> archives to Nabble?

It may be a matter of taste: they have a very clean layout, they are a  
bit more "modern" than gmane (you can embed your archive into your own  
web site, for example), they try to present a Forum experience, good  
RSS support, child/parent lists, and they're now working on a newer  
version, Nabble 2, including many requests from their users.

Lots of info here:
   http://www.nabble.com/

I don't know if they can move gmane archives.  I did ask them ([hidden email]
) about putting some of our mailman archives into nabble, and they  
asked for the "mbox" file to be uploaded.  I didn't follow up, but I  
do know they try to upload old archive content if at all possible.

    -- Owen

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

gmane archives out of date.

Gary L. Gray

On Jul 7, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Gary L. Gray wrote:
>> Please don't hijack existing threads -- see the "List Reminders and  
>> Etiquette" link in the footer of this message.
>
> Yikes! Not sure how I hijacked an existing thread.  Is there a "os x  
> tex gmane" thread?  Anyway, sorry!
>
>> On Jul 7, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>>> The gmane archive is not keeping up with the list .. last entry I  
>>> see is 14 June.  I'd like to search the archives before asking a  
>>> question that's likely been answered already!  The mailman  
>>> archives aren't easily searchable.
>>
>> Thank you for noticing that. I just checked and I see that the  
>> address for gmane had been blocked due to excessive bouncing. I  
>> have unblocked it, though I have no idea why it would have  
>> excessively bounced and I also have no idea how to get the missing  
>> messages into the gmane archive. If someone knows how to do this,  
>> please let me know. It would be nice to have the missing messages  
>> included.
>>
>>> BTW: our group has found nabble a better overall list archive, and  
>>> we're changing our existing gmane archives there.  Both isn't a  
>>> bad idea either, redundancy is useful.
>>
>> What is it you prefer about Nabble over gmane? Can I move gmane  
>> archives to Nabble?
>
> It may be a matter of taste: they have a very clean layout, they are  
> a bit more "modern" than gmane (you can embed your archive into your  
> own web site, for example), they try to present a Forum experience,  
> good RSS support, child/parent lists, and they're now working on a  
> newer version, Nabble 2, including many requests from their users.
>
> Lots of info here:
>  http://www.nabble.com/
>
> I don't know if they can move gmane archives.  I did ask them ([hidden email]
> ) about putting some of our mailman archives into nabble, and they  
> asked for the "mbox" file to be uploaded.  I didn't follow up, but I  
> do know they try to upload old archive content if at all possible.


Thanks -- I will look into it later this year (professional stuff is  
getting in the way of everything).

I think I can generate an mbox with all of the postings to the list  
since its inception, so that would be a possibility.

-- Gary

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Victor Ivrii
In reply to this post by Herbert Schulz
 Well, the real problem is (at least for a mathematician) the line

Comparing equations (8.1), (7.9),(5.3) and (1.4),...

With AR  or TS  etc you click on the link (8.1), select page area
using corresponding tool:

rectangle tool in TS and Skim  or snapshot tool  in AR (looks like
photo camera; remember in AR you can customize toolbar), copy it (in
TS you press Cmd-C, in AR it is done automatically), paste it as
graphics in TextEdit (or any graphics editor) window, go to previous
view (thus returning to the page you are reading) and repeat the
procedure for each of equations. So you end-up with the TextEdit
window containing all these equations and can actually compare them.
Beside equations it could be theorems etc

This is not extremely convenient but (1) it is far more convenient
than for a printed paper where your snapshot tool is a pencil and a
paper (2) Adobe' people think that they already provided us with all
tools needed.

I definitely believe that just going back-and-forth without copy-paste
makes comparison rather superficial unless there are very few very
short equations. This would be true and for another window displaying
at any moment just one of the equations you want to compare.

Surely if you are the author you can always write: Comparing equations
(\ref{A}), (\ref{B}),...
\begin{equation}
...............
\tag{\ref{A}}
\end{equation}
\begin{equation}
...............
\tag{\ref{b}}
\end{equation}

but using this trick frequently would increase the number of pages
with  grave consequences for printed article; even pdf article will be
overburdened.


Luckily Ross demonstrated a solution in a different mailing list
(works only in AR since only it understands Javascript). Hopefully he
will make a package.

Right now beside of asking him 'pretty-pretty-please" one can achieve
similar effect  but not as nice looking (and actually requiring some
cumbersome work from the author) using fancytooltips package by Robert
Marik. What is worse: with Ross solution viewers different from AR
just follow the link, while with solution based on fancytooltips
package it does not work

While this definitely is not endemic to MacOSX, I think that asking
Ross for a really correct tool should be made in any occasion. I would
prefer, however, if (say) control-clicking on link would actually
follow it instead of pop-up (so the reader can chose between pop-uping
and going).

Victor







--
========================
Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto
http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Ross Moore
In reply to this post by Adam R. Maxwell
Hi Adam,

On 08/07/2008, at 8:08 AM, Adam R. Maxwell wrote:
>
> On Monday, July 07, 2008, at 02:52PM, "Ross Moore"  
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all,

>> What I'd like is for one such floating window to be the target
>> of cross-reference hyperlinks in the main PDF viewing window.
>> That way you can check on the content of a cross-reference
>> without changing the view that is being used to read the paper.
>
> Skim does this when you command-click on a link in the PDF file.

Aaaah; yes. That's much better.
After a few of those, the hover effect works better too.

> It's quite handy for reading references.

Indeed.

> It also tries to display a preview of the target when you hover  
> over a link, but this has mixed results.

Presumably there is a time-delay, probably related to
the need to render the entire document in memory,
before the extra windows and pop-ups can work smoothly.

>
>> Even better would be if the size of this "cross-reference spyglass"
>> would resize automatically, adapting to the size of the material
>> being referenced --- i.e., to the size of the rectangle associated
>> to the destination anchor, as well as respecting its view attributes.
>>
>> That is, it could be a rectangle neatly encompassing a figure or  
>> table,
>> changing to a squat wide rectangle for a referenced equation or
>> citation.
>
> Skim also does this, to some extent.  There are compromises with  
> remembering window positions, and also limitations of what  
> information is available from the PDF itself.

Sure. Is there documentation anywhere about this?
The application Help doesn't give details of the
features, just basic "how to use" stuff.

I'd prefer the snapshot windows to have smaller frames,
whereas currently they are like full Macintosh windows.
Though the ability to minimize into the side-pane
is really neat. This allows the snapshots to be pushed
out of the way, yet still be easily recoverable.

>
> This is all in addition to the splitview feature that Adam G.  
> mentioned previously.

Can the split views be associated separately
with the split views in the TeXshop editor?
I think that would satisfy the OP's request.

>
> --
> Adam

Cheers, and thanks,

        Ross

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Ross Moore
In reply to this post by Victor Ivrii
Hi Victor,

On 08/07/2008, at 9:58 AM, Victor Ivrii wrote:
>  Well, the real problem is (at least for a mathematician) the line
>
> Comparing equations (8.1), (7.9),(5.3) and (1.4),...
>
> With AR  or TS  etc you click on the link (8.1), select page area
> using corresponding tool:
>
> rectangle tool in TS and Skim  or snapshot tool  in AR (looks like

AR and Preview (TS) give you images this way, which need to be
pasted somewhere for comparison.

With Skim, just Cmd-click the link then hit its yellow
traffic-light. This minimizes it into the "Snapshot" side-bar.
Do this for each equation needing to be compared.
Then bring each one back up with a click, and adjust its window
size/shape/position (and magnification, if desired).
This allows an easier way to compare the equations.

The need to adjust window sizes is a step that it would be
nice to be able to eliminate, if possible.


Also, the term "Snapshot" is now being used in two different ways.
For Skim, a better term might be "Spyglass", or something else;
especially since the view is scrollable, so not really a snapshot
at all.

> photo camera; remember in AR you can customize toolbar), copy it (in
> TS you press Cmd-C, in AR it is done automatically), paste it as
> graphics in TextEdit (or any graphics editor) window, go to previous
> view (thus returning to the page you are reading) and repeat the
> procedure for each of equations. So you end-up with the TextEdit
> window containing all these equations and can actually compare them.
> Beside equations it could be theorems etc
>
> This is not extremely convenient but (1) it is far more convenient
> than for a printed paper where your snapshot tool is a pencil and a
> paper (2) Adobe' people think that they already provided us with all
> tools needed.
>
> I definitely believe that just going back-and-forth without copy-paste
> makes comparison rather superficial unless there are very few very
> short equations. This would be true and for another window displaying
> at any moment just one of the equations you want to compare.

Yes; but with Skim you can have many different windows,
opened and sized appropriately.

>
> Surely if you are the author you can always write: Comparing equations
> (\ref{A}), (\ref{B}),...
> \begin{equation}
> ...............
> \tag{\ref{A}}
> \end{equation}
> \begin{equation}
> ...............
> \tag{\ref{b}}
> \end{equation}
>
> but using this trick frequently would increase the number of pages
> with  grave consequences for printed article; even pdf article will be
> overburdened.

It should not be necessary to add extra images to the PDF, if that
is what you mean, since the information is already in the PDF...

>
>
> Luckily Ross demonstrated a solution in a different mailing list
> (works only in AR since only it understands Javascript). Hopefully he
> will make a package.

  ... which is one of the downsides of my solution, which
is not shared by Skim's "Snapshots".

>
> Right now beside of asking him 'pretty-pretty-please" one can achieve
> similar effect  but not as nice looking (and actually requiring some
> cumbersome work from the author) using fancytooltips package by Robert
> Marik. What is worse: with Ross solution viewers different from AR
> just follow the link, while with solution based on fancytooltips
> package it does not work

The 2nd downside of my solution is that you cannot choose between
the actions. My Javascript button screens the underlying hyperlink.
It is reliant on the browser to pass a click through when JS is
not activated.  AR and eVince (for Linux) do this correctly,
but Preview and Skim do not.


Thus it is really a matter of requesting the browser vendors
to implement all the methods that we researchers find useful;
preferably with a consistent interface for using them.

Having Skim doing some things differently to Preview and AR
is useful for showing Apple and Adobe what we'd like them
to be doing too.

>
> While this definitely is not endemic to MacOSX, I think that asking
> Ross for a really correct tool should be made in any occasion. I would
> prefer, however, if (say) control-clicking on link would actually
> follow it instead of pop-up (so the reader can chose between pop-uping
> and going).

Skim giving you the choice of "Click" and "Cmd-click" is a good
solution, IMHO.

>
> Victor


Cheers,

        Ross

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Victor Ivrii
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Ross Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Victor,

>
> AR and Preview (TS) give you images this way, which need to be
> pasted somewhere for comparison.
>
> With Skim, just Cmd-click the link then hit its yellow
> traffic-light. This minimizes it into the "Snapshot" side-bar.
> Do this for each equation needing to be compared.
> Then bring each one back up with a click, and adjust its window
> size/shape/position (and magnification, if desired).
> This allows an easier way to compare the equations.
>

This is very nice
> The need to adjust window sizes is a step that it would be
> nice to be able to eliminate, if possible.

Further, one needs often scroll this window and it size is bounded from below
>
>
> Also, the term "Snapshot" is now being used in two different ways.
> For Skim, a better term might be "Spyglass", or something else;
> especially since the view is scrollable, so not really a snapshot
> at all.

As an author I would like to have a control what will be in the
Spyglass window.
>

>> paper (2) Adobe' people think that they already provided us with all
>> tools needed.
>>

> Yes; but with Skim you can have many different windows,
> opened and sized appropriately.

I did not realize this

>
>>
>> Surely if you are the author you can always write: Comparing equations
>> (\ref{A}), (\ref{B}),...
>> \begin{equation}
>> ...............
>> \tag{\ref{A}}
>> \end{equation}
>> \begin{equation}
>> ...............
>> \tag{\ref{b}}
>> \end{equation}
>>
>> but using this trick frequently would increase the number of pages
>> with  grave consequences for printed article; even pdf article will be
>> overburdened.
>
> It should not be necessary to add extra images to the PDF, if that
> is what you mean, since the information is already in the PDF...

" for printed article" I wrote. As far as pdf article is concerned if
your page is clogged by old equations then you have very little of new
material. Therefore this trick should be used not too often and thus
pop-ups or Spywindows or Copy-paste are required

>
>>
>>
>> Luckily Ross demonstrated a solution in a different mailing list
>> (works only in AR since only it understands Javascript). Hopefully he
>> will make a package.
>
>  ... which is one of the downsides of my solution, which
> is not shared by Skim's "Snapshots".

The problem with Skim or any pdf-viewer different from AA/AR is that
they are not full-featured and cannot display JS animations, or
movies, or u3d files. The latter is not exotic anymore: Mathematica
can export to PLY, Maple+Javaview to OBJ, Meshlab can convert both PLY
and OBJ to U3D (the color is lost so far)


>
> The 2nd downside of my solution is that you cannot choose between
> the actions. My Javascript button screens the underlying hyperlink.

Yes and the same is true for fancytooltips but even in the worst way:
even without JS hyperlink is blocked

> It is reliant on the browser to pass a click through when JS is
> not activated.  AR and eVince (for Linux) do this correctly,
> but Preview and Skim do not.

Well, none of this is truly correct behavior IMHO. A reader should be
able to chose between following link and popup without enabling
/disabling js
>
>
> Thus it is really a matter of requesting the browser vendors
> to implement all the methods that we researchers find useful;
> preferably with a consistent interface for using them.
>
> Having Skim doing some things differently to Preview and AR
> is useful for showing Apple and Adobe what we'd like them
> to be doing too.

Will they listen?
>
> Skim giving you the choice of "Click" and "Cmd-click" is a good
> solution, IMHO.

Yes, as long as AR is not required due to multimedia content

   Victor

>
>>
>> Victor
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>        Ross
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
> Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
> Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
> Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ----------- Please Consult the Following Before Posting -----------

>



--
========================
Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto
http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: List of feature requests on this list

Ross Moore
Hi Victor,

On 08/07/2008, at 1:19 PM, Victor Ivrii wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Ross Moore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Victor,

>> Also, the term "Snapshot" is now being used in two different ways.
>> For Skim, a better term might be "Spyglass", or something else;
>> especially since the view is scrollable, so not really a snapshot
>> at all.
>
> As an author I would like to have a control what will be in the
> Spyglass window.

I agree.
there are times when you'd like to use an existing window
for a view of a different portion of content;
other times you want a new window, as Skim currently does.

>>> paper (2) Adobe' people think that they already provided us with all
>>> tools needed.

Do you have an email or something which expresses this view?
If so, I'd like to see it, please.

>>> Luckily Ross demonstrated a solution in a different mailing list
>>> (works only in AR since only it understands Javascript).  
>>> Hopefully he
>>> will make a package.
>>
>>  ... which is one of the downsides of my solution, which
>> is not shared by Skim's "Snapshots".
>
> The problem with Skim or any pdf-viewer different from AA/AR is that
> they are not full-featured and cannot display JS animations, or
> movies, or u3d files. The latter is not exotic anymore: Mathematica
> can export to PLY, Maple+Javaview to OBJ, Meshlab can convert both PLY
> and OBJ to U3D (the color is lost so far)

Sure.
Everything you want is not yet all available
while working within a single browser...

>> The 2nd downside of my solution is that you cannot choose between
>> the actions. My Javascript button screens the underlying hyperlink.
>
> Yes and the same is true for fancytooltips but even in the worst way:
> even without JS hyperlink is blocked
>
>> It is reliant on the browser to pass a click through when JS is
>> not activated.  AR and eVince (for Linux) do this correctly,
>> but Preview and Skim do not.
>
> Well, none of this is truly correct behavior IMHO. A reader should be
> able to chose between following link and popup without enabling
> /disabling js

... and again I agree that having the choice is best.


>> Thus it is really a matter of requesting the browser vendors
>> to implement all the methods that we researchers find useful;
>> preferably with a consistent interface for using them.
>>
>> Having Skim doing some things differently to Preview and AR
>> is useful for showing Apple and Adobe what we'd like them
>> to be doing too.
>
> Will they listen?

I'm going to give a talk at the DML 2008 workshop, later this
month. I'll be including a discussion of these issues.

     http://www.fi.muni.cz/~sojka/dml-2008.xhtml

If you don't mind, I'll use some of your expressed views.

Hopefully I'll do a good enough job, and the audience
will be sufficiently receptive, that something positive
may result.

Furthermore, I'll show this kind of thing at TUG 2008,
during the week before DML. So even more people will get
to see the usefulness. This may create a way to get to
the actual coders and developers.


>> Skim giving you the choice of "Click" and "Cmd-click" is a good
>> solution, IMHO.
>
> Yes, as long as AR is not required due to multimedia content
>
>    Victor


Cheers,

        Ross

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore                                       [hidden email]
Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------



12